(A response to Mr. Lazarus’ answer on, ‘Where was Jesus in the beginning, before the creation and before the time?’)

I read with keen interest the answer to one of the questions posted on the website “Answering Islam” on the above issue. Mr. Lazarus really tried but to confuse his readers that Jesus existed in the beginning with his complex analysis and childish similitude that is not even known to the god(s) in question. Meanwhile this piece may help you out.

Allah is the name of the Supreme Being in Islam and is being referred to as other names held by tribes of other lands as their Supreme Being or True God. He is One and Unique in all culture in His attributes. But by the advent of Christianity, uniqueness of Almighty is dropped by introduction of Trio-God- the existence of God as Trinity claimed by Christians that Jesus exists side by side with God, tri-unity God, more importantly in the beginning of the creation and before time. He claims that “essentially the father is the one form whom the son and the spirit proceed forth.” this is hereunder debunked by Jesus and dismantled in this analysis.

Mr. Lazarus allegation that ‘Muslims do shy away from discussing the nature of God and which ever position Muslims take on God nature is always met by a kind of problem’ against Christians’ reasoning and analysis,’ are rootless claim. In Islam the existence of Allah and His presence is as revealed in the Quran and explained by the ProphetSAW in the Hadith. All what is necessary for everyman to know about the Supreme Being is abundantly explained in the Quran and it is enough for a submissive mind like that of true believer. It satisfies, as it contains all what man need to know about his Creator. Allah says: 

“It is He Who created the heavens and the Earth in six days and then mounted the Throne. He knows what enters the earths and what comes out of it and what comes down from heavens and what goes up into it” Q57: 4.

Allah is everywhere by His forbearing Knowledge. Truly Allah says: 

“We created man and We know what his inner self whisper, to him. And We are nearer to him than his jugular vein”Q50:16. Elsewhere He says: “Dost thou not see that Allah knows all that is in the heavens and earth? There is no secret counsel of three but He is their fourth, nor of five but He is their sixth, nor of less than that or more, He is with them whereso ever they may be…”Q58: 7.

The meaning of this is not literal but speaks merely of Allah’s figurative closeness. Or shall we say in reference to Q57: 4 above that Allah in order to be present, He is following up and down what goes up and come down of heavens. No! That is it “He is Al-Halim, The Forbearing”, His Omnipresent is due to His Omniscient. Allah is close or with us by His Knowledge, Sight and Power- prove able by the fact: “He sees all faces but no face sees Him”Q6:103. This is the reason why Jesus shouted at top of his voice: “My God My God Why hast Thou forsaken me?” Matthew27: 46. This is a confirmation that his father was not with Him! Could God be literally present with him and still be shouting like a man lost of all hopes?

Meanwhile God was fully aware of Jesus’ situation and His guidance angels who watched over Jesus like that of every man were right there with Jesus to further testify to Allah about the involvement of every man. “When the two angels record man’s deed. One sitting on the right and other on the left. He utters not a word but there is by him recording angel ready to record it…”Q50: 17-18.

The presence of Allah on His Throne and ability to exert His will everywhere is therefore not a limitation on His personality or philosophical error as the Christians want us to believe; instead it reveals the greatness of His incomparable nature grossly different from that of man or the kind of Christians’ minds. Ordinarily the radiant of Allah’s greatness in His attributes affect the whole Universe as He wills. Sun is in one place and its effect is felt by many at the same time in different places. Radio transmitter and electronic satellites are in a place and their signals are received with their effect on lives everywhere. How much more the Creator of Sun and Fashioner of man who made satellites! Yet the nature of Allah in His existence and exhibition of His attributes is by far distinctively different from this analogy. Here is a similitude of Him as the Light. “Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and with it a Lamp. The Lamp enclosed in Glass, the Glass as it were a brilliant Star. Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the East nor the West, whose oil is well nigh luminous, though fire touches it not. Light upon Light…”Q24:35.

What would you compare this to? The logic and philosophy is simple and straightforward. It is what Allah says of Himself and the explanation the ProphetSAW told us. It is first class information from the sources concerned and it is simply stated: “Say: He is Allah, the Only One. Allah, the Besought of all. He begets not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him”Q112: 1-4. This corollary truth is the problem of Christians. Mr. Lazarus described it as ‘an incredibly nebulous statement’. But it is simply established in the Bible when Jesus said: “You have neither hear His (God) voice at any time nor seen his shape” John5: 37.  So, what will Christians compare thing which is never heard or seen before with? This is why we Muslims are convenient with our simplicity of Oneness of God. It is what true God says of Himself in both Books not complex analysis of unknown origin, or Trinity which Jesus never heard during his life and which would be hardly understood in the peaceful heaven. Thus Muslims will discuss the nature of God from the un-eroded authentic source available and we are happy.

The problem of Christians about the nature of God is that the Bible hardly says anything tangible and reasonable about Him. The few that are available have their contradictions all across the Bible. So they are confused and what they do is to go into their own rational thinking- even the wrong one to explain a strange doctrine not ever heard or known to Jesus or his father. They will rather take to complex rationalization than believing the simple scarce truth about the nature of God. All what Muslims say about Allah are supported by direct, His word from the Quran as I’ve done above. Let any Christian bring out of the Bible where God says ‘I am three in one’ or ‘my nature is love and I am love, I come down inform of Jesus’ and the likes which Christians used to claim. Never! I went through Mr. Lazarus piece and there is not a single quotation, direct speech of God on his nature! So to cover this embarrassment and to scale through the deficiency, he embarked on complex analysis to the extent of trying to bastardize simple Islamic facts that even have reference in their book. Without doubt, no Christian can take hold of Quran without feeling jealous of the overwhelming beautiful expression of the nature of True God in it.  

With the theory of trinity, there is no single claim by Christian without its counter facts in the Bible. Christians fully agree that God is beyond their full comprehension and that the God is truly good and has the ability to reveal certain aspects about Himself. But the aspect He did not reveal they have taken as the centre of their belief- the trinity. And because of their wrong choice, Christians have complex problem on trinity because  the doctrine is widely believed to have been borrowed from idolatry that Christians met on  ground with the Romans who ruled the birth place of their lord- Jesus and places where Apostle Paul carried his unauthorized gospel  (Matthew 10: 5-6). We read: “There are obvious similarities between Mithraism and Christianity, Mithra may be translated as ‘friend’ and ‘contract’ – Mithra was called the mediator, he was god of shining light that behold everything and hence was involved in oaths. Mithra was equated with the creator (Demiurge) of the Timaeus…Mithra’s birthday was being celebrated on December 25. One Mithraic hymn begins, ‘Thou has redeem us too by shedding the eternal blood”- Encyclopedia Britannica, 1980, Vol. 12, page 287. What an embarrassing similarity!

Aside, the shame and exposure of many discoveries that linked Trinity with idolatry led some Christians to see the only solid verse about trinity as falsehood; they either remove or amend the verse in the Bible, i.e. 1John 5: 7.  And for this reason many Christian sects have rejected the entire doctrine. Consider this 3 specimen.

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost and these three are One” 1John5: 7 -King James Version (KJV).

“So there are three witness that tell us about Jesus, the spirit, the water and the blood. These three witnesses agree” 1John5:7. -Easy to Read Version (ERV).

“For there are three witness bearers, the spirit and water and the blood and the three are in agreement”. 1John5:7. New World Translation (NWT).

Can any Christian tell the similarity among the three? While the KJV tries to prove trinity, the ERV tells about Jesus alone and NWT can’t say what or who the witness is about, it hands it over to you to decide.  You can credit its witness for anything even your self! What about the Trinity personalities missing in ERV & NWT!  That is the God’s nature in Christianity. As observed by Mr. Lazarus ‘Muslims are dumb about the nature of Allah, it is only what Allah says about Himself we can stemmer’ on the other hand ‘God’ is dumb in Christianity, his children are his mouthpiece he cannot say anything clear of Himself except for Christians to cook-up their whims. It is up to sensible person with spark of truth in him to choose between the Words of Supreme Being and human conjecture.

Another problem of Christians is that of spirit, yes they have spirit of God in them but without guidance even though the spirit in them has been corrupted by their whimsical views, that is the reason why they are found in spiritual blunder and blasphemy. Muslims have the spirit of truth which is god to Christians as a machinery for the revelation of Quran and instrument to strengthen them in faith on the unity and unequal nature of true God: “Say, the spirit of holiness has brought it (Quran) down from your Lord with Truth, that He may strengthen those who believe and as a guidance and glad tidings for Muslims” Q16: 102. Muslims thus have the Holy Spirit but plus guidance. On the other hand Christians are without true guidance, that is one of their problems. The total guidance is right there in the Quran and it is simple, some remnants are also in the Bible but Christians would not follow guidance, just as the guidance which Jesus prescribed for the inheriting Paradise which is to observe the Law (Matthew 19: 16-17) is jettisoned; guidance on how to supplicate is abandoned (Matthew 6: 5-8), like wise is the simple guidance of nature of God is forsaken for complex analysis of trio-God. But odd complex analysis of the Christians will never avail anything against simple Islamic truth no matter the ‘cleverness’ they assume. It cannot truncate simple truth and commonsense fact.

Islamic concept on  nature of God has fulfilled Jesus mind in John 16: 7-13 and confession of Paul: “For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when that which is perfect is come , then that which is in part shall be done away” 1 Corinthians 13: 9-10. All the truth about God have been revealed and perfected, leaving no mysteries for mankind to unravel. Allah says: “…This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed my favour upon you and have chosen for you men Islam as religion.” Q5: 3. So Christians have no choice than to leave the uncompleted and unperfected part of complex trinity and embrace the simple and completed truth. Hundreds of Quranic verses teach who Allah is and how to know and worship Him. For anybody to arrive at certainty, you just pick a copy of the Quran side by side with the Bible and compare and contrast the facts and attributes of the Supreme Being in the two Books. No one will tell what your decision would be if you have sense of reasoning and spark of truth in you.

As common to Christians, Mr. Lazarus also doesn’t know what to call Jesus, saying ‘he is son and also God’s word and therefore cannot be separated from god, even from the beginning’! If that is the case God will have more sons apart from Jesus and he did have many sons of unknown duties and relation (Genesis 6: 2-4)! We all know that word cannot exist without thought and thought is idea or opinion formed from process of thinking without which word cannot form. If word now exists as Jesus then thought must also have its existence. In fact all attributes of God such as wisdom, knowledge, love, power will have a physical being representing God as sons like Jesus in order to show the love of God?

If one is jailed for a crime or treasonable utterances, he is jailed with all his words in him and his spirit. Can we then say that when Jesus was being dragged along the paths in Jerusalem and when he was nailed to the cross his father and Holy Spirit have experienced the same? How then do you compare God nature with human experience? Can you or have you see where angel is chained or jailed? How much more of God, which kind of god is the biblical Jesus? Since speech involves many processes in the body of a speaker such as breathing, phonation, articulation, resonance and prosody, of which any disturbance can lead to impediment of words, such as stammering and stuttering. Did difficulty in Jesus’ life affect the body of the father from where he proceeded as claimed and to what extent and in what manner?

Allah is the Loving God; He has His spirit and word in Him which He sends at will, these cannot act as another god beside Him or against His will. While Allah’s words and spirit cannot be separated from Him and cannot be double-crossed, we have Jesus God’s word according to Christians been double-crossed and victimized to the point of death even by the creature he contributed to their creation! That is another embarrassment to believe son-ship of Jesus and doctrine of trinity! That is the reason why ‘Theology Dictionary of New testament’ simply states: “I have begotten thee’ is simply no more than stereotyped formular”- (Kittel .G. “Theology Dictionary of the New Testament” 1972, Vol. 1 page 668).

Mr. Lazarus claims that ‘God transforming to Jesus is out of love for man and is like knowing somebody who actually spend time with them or as a king or great leader who is teaching his kid how to play with doll and because Muslims claim Allah to be all alone in the beginning He cannot have love’, is a great aberration, analytical disaster and amusing of Christians complex intellectual problem about God’s nature.

Allah is Al-Wadud, The Loving God, He needs not to have any other equal God like Son and Holy Ghost beside Him before He Loves. The Love is already in Him. Is it possible for a man not to love himself because he is alone even in jail or not having love for others or certain things because they are not with him?  Did Jesus not love himself when he forsook his disciples and ran into the bush for fear of death (John 11: 53)? How much more is the incomparable God? Naturally, love is not necessarily a matter of relationship. Relational love is secondary. Love is inborn quality. It has been put in man by Allah (Q3: 14). Many things man do not relate or live with but do love merely because of seeing, hearing or thinking about it. To now say Jesus is love is a statement far from truth, because love is good but Jesus denied having this quality of love (Mark 10: 18). This means he is not love or does he share it from his father, if at all the biblical God truly have it! The so called love analysis above, that God in Christianity came to do is abundantly exhibited by Allah’s servant in person of Prophet MuhammedSAW. He played with his kids, exhibited all kinds of love for a number of followers and tribes of man which Jesus did not experience in his life, and he taught us well how to love. Allah didn’t come down to teach us this, instead He has put the love instinct in us and the ability to exhibit it satisfactorily and sent His Prophet to come and display it to the fullest. Is MuhammadSAW not truly great than Christian God? See (‘The 100: A Ranking of Most Influential Persons in History’ by Michael H. Hart).

Love is in man “…He (Allah) has put love and tenderness between you. In that surely are signs for a people who reflect”Q30: 21. It is out of love Allah created us as human being (Q17: 70). And it is love and kindness that He has put at our disposal all the necessities and as to know how to worship Him and be rightly guided, He has sent His Prophets: “Allah is He Who created heavens and earth and causes water to come down from the clouds and brought forth therewith fruits for your sustenance and He has subjected to you the ships that may sail through the sea by His command, and the rivers too has He subjected to you. And He has also subjected to you the sun and the moon, both performing their work constantly. And He has subjected to you the night as well as the day. And He gave you all that you wanted of Him; and if you try to count the favors of Allah, you will not be able to number. Verily man is very unjust and ungrateful” Q14: 32-34. Is there any love greater than these? Where in the Bible do you have a similar statement? Allah is Supreme and we hold Him as such!

Despite that Christians see their God as God of love and father, is it not embarrassing that their lives are not different from that of nominal Muslims. They even experience the worst situation. For this reason Allah asks: “The Jews and Christians says; ‘we are sons of God and His loved ones, say: ‘why then does He punish you for your sins?’ Nay you are only human beings among those He has created” Q5: 18. That is another simple Islamic truth and fact- indisputable one! Churches are now filled with the noise of daddy. Thank you daddy! God is wearing away among Christians! Soon it will be ‘forgotten out of love’. Allah is Al-Wadud-The Loving One. He called Himself by this in Q85: 14, but is it not disgracing Christians that there is no single place in the Bible  where we have such direct statement where God or his son  Jesus claim of being Love except as a third party expression. How shall we believe John and his like who claim that the biblical god is love? Where in the Bible did the God call himself Love? All is rhetorical! Did Jesus wailing in Matthew 27: 46,   indicate his father a truly God of love? Is that not an indication of the absence of the God and his love altogether?

Jesus is quoted to have said “I am the way and truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me…”John 14: 6-7 but he denied being good! What kind of truth and life lack goodness? The concluding statement is even contradicted by another saying: “No one can come to me except the father draws him!” John 6: 44.  What shall we do? To go to Jesus or wait until father draw us? That is the kind of warring truth we know Jesus of the Bible with. And this make it difficult for Muslims to accept him as truth or any one reported for him in the Bible. “Who is more truthful than Allah?” Q4: 87 asked Allah. Surely Nobody! Even if for argument sake we accept the statement of Jesus to be partially true, he has further put limitation to such acceptance, as he said:  “As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world” John 9: 5. We all know where he is now, so he his no more the truth, the life nor the light. Who then occupies the position? It is Allah the Ever Living God, the Light of heavens and earth -see Quran 24: 35 quoted above, thus Allah calls on you: “Trust thou in the Living One who dies not and glorify Him with His praises” Q25; 58. That is if your god is crucified try Allah. Or whatever you do of the above Jesus’ confusion: “…die not except as a Muslim”Q3: 102.

Mr. Lazarus argued the Muslims claim that True God cannot transform to man Jesus. Christians are astute contenders even on falsehood. He claims that once Allah will be seen by man in a shape known to man, citing Hadith Sahih Bukhariy Vol. 8 Book 76, number 577, where the ProphetSAW was saying how Allah will appear to Muslims in the hereafter, it means God truly transformed to Jesus! To come out of all this entanglement and embarrassment that greeted the doctrine of Trinity and the personality of the make up, Christians embarked on unnecessary complex analysis and childish similitude not comparable with glory and greatness of the Supreme Being in any culture of the world. But with the simple Islamic fact they shall be liberated.

What relevance does the hadith have to do with the absurd claim of earthly Christians’ claim that God transformed to Jesus for man to see?  He thinks he can hide under this distinct Islamic fact which is revealing the hereafter where eyes will have attained another sphere and level, when everything will assume a new dimension and properties. It is higher realm of existence different from what we experienced before on earth. Allah says: “On that Day when the earth will be changed to another earth and the heavens too and will appear before Allah, the One the Most Supreme”Q14: 48. “That Day shall We set a seal on their mouths. But their hands will speak to Us and their feet will bear witness to all they did” Q36: 65. So man after death enters another realm entirely, there is a barrier of clear difference after man’s death as well as the Final Day (Q23: 100). By that time and with that new nature those who would see Allah will be able to withstand and comprehend the shape He would be appearing to them. Thus if Allah lowers Himself on the Day of Resurrection, it is not as the same state and experience as that of this world.  So this again defeats incarnation of God on earth or the existence of trinity in the beginning. We therefore again simply say No! Infinite God cannot take on the finite. The exalted nature of Allah cannot lower Himself. Finite man cannot see the infinite God here on earth; the Bible and Quran say it! - John 5: 37, Quran 6: 103.

Christians’ complex logic to explain the strange doctrine of trinity is as a result of their failure in simple truth. This is true because Jesus or his father never taught such complex confusing concept toward the understanding the nature of God. He used simple and understandable parables and words. In fact  he once embraced little children and certified the simple understanding as the standard, needed for understanding  nature and fact about God and key to the gate of paradise: “Suffer little children , and forbid them not to come to me , for of such is the kingdom of heaven” Matthew 19: 14. Which Christian child will understand the complex logic of 1+1+1= 1 against simple arithmetic he/she were taught in school?

It was this fact that led an American lady, Erin Fannoun who accepted Allah in place of Trinity, describe to us the picture of ‘God’ in her mind like that of many Christians saying: “I wrestled with the notion of Trinity trying to understand how many gods was not one but three, one who created the earth, one whose blood was spilled for our sins, and then there was the question of the Holy ghost.  Yet all one and the same?  When I would pray to ‘God’, I had a certain image in my mind of a wise man in flowing robe, up in the clouds.  When I would pray to ‘Jesus’, I pictured a young white man with long golden hair, beard and blue eyes.  As for the Holy Spirit, well, I could only conjure up a misty creature whose purpose I was not sure of.  It really didn’t feel as though I was praying to one God!” Was she? As a Christian, are you too praying to one True God? That is the complex problem of your faith and you definitely need deliverance just a simple one like the one that set Fannoun free. The statement like the one found in John 1: 1-4, which Mr. Lazarus and Christian world see as the cushion for Christians as the existence of Jesus in the beginning among trinity after the collapse of 1 John 5: 7 exhibited above are concocted words, baseless praise and filthy rag that can easily be torn and discarded just by a statement from Jesus. Muslims would have considered them if they have been made by Jesus or his father, but those corrupt trance statement can never hold water. John statement in John 1: 1-4 is at variance with that of Moses who is believed to be the author of Genesis, who wrote “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God move upon the face of the water” Genesis 1: 1-2.

If Jesus is the word and with the God, why was he not mentioned here? And why was the spirit wandering about on water looking for where to lodge if Jesus was there truly? That shows the idiocy in John statement or falsehood in the writers of the book. Even, the verses show that the God was half dead or unconscious because ‘his spirit’ was not in him for some time. Could he be comatose? This Genesis narration shows that Jesus was not at any time with his alleged father in the beginning, and the authors of the books of John and Proverb did not see Moses or consulted his book before they wrote the falsehood about Jesus. Jesus knowing that he was not the son or one god among trinity or exist in the beginning of the creation disgraced them and did not shy away from the humiliating question of his absence in the beginning, by his words on the signs and period of last hour, saying: “But of that Day, and that Hour, knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the son, but the father” Mark 13: 32. Is this not an indisputable proof that Jesus did not proceed from his so called father or been in existence with his father from the beginning. If he was truly there, he should know what period he and two other gods decided to end the world they co created!

May Allah make acceptance of the truth easy for you!